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Translations for half of the Chalice


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PersianaJan 20, 2007 2:21am
This delightful group could have been named "Translations of Rumi". The original Rumi verses are much more profound and beautiful than any translated copy. Thanks to the most poetic and the most metaphorical of all languages, the Persian, and profound messages of Rumi, the originals would touch the spirit of a reader beyond the words of any translated copy. *smile*

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Migrant-PickerJan 20, 2007 4:54am
That is interesting... I know what you mean about translations... I have studied Spanish poetry and done some translating myself. I have noticed that the original Spanish language poetry is usually more impactful. Neruda comes to mind...

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PersianaJan 22, 2007 7:44pm
Relevant excerpts by Shahriar Shahriari, a translator of Rumi's literature, from this page:

Quote:
"While many of the translations of Rumi's poetry have tried to convey the immense wisdom contained therein, often they overlook the musical and artistic beauty that they contain. Particularly in Divan-e Shams, Rumi has created such level of beauty through the use and mastery of musical rhythm and rhyme, that the reader not only can appreciate its wisdom, but also reach levels of ecstasy and mystical energy that is seldom found in other poems or any translations of his poetry.

The mastery of rhyme and rhythm is such that he often creates a new vocabulary, using the same old words, yet creating new feelings that are associated with them. Furthermore, often he has such mastery of play on words and puns, or at other times he uses the same word with a different accent or vowel twice or even thrice in the same verse, with a different meaning each time. One cannot help but marvel at the linguistic mastery he displays.

In any case, the end result is the same... the experience of artistic beauty, musical genius, rhythm and ecstatic energy, all in conjunction with the mental understanding of the wisdom conveyed. This is as close as one can get to the mystical experience itself, without actually being there with Rumi. In other words, His presence pervades his poetry, and one cannot help but be touched by such powerful and loving presence.

In translation from Farsi to English, it is inevitable that much of the intricacies are lost. However, the present translations have attempted to retain some of the rhythm and rhyme as well as the imagery and the core message of each poem, though often in feeble ways, only to attempt to present a glimpse of his mastery." End quote.


Noteworthy is "at other times he uses the same word with a different accent or vowel twice or even thrice in the same verse, with a different meaning each time." That's the essence of Rumi's poems. Unfortunately English language does not present a translator with the same choice.

Here's an example from Divan-e Shams in English and Farsi to show the phonetic style and the multiple meanings:

"Come along, come along, the fields are a-flower
Come along, come along, it's the lover's hour.
Come along, all at once, every soul and all the world
Bathe yourselves in the sun's golden arrows' shower."

In Rumi's writings:

biaaeid biaaeid ke golzaar damidast
biaaeid biaaeid ke deldaar residast
biaaeid beyekbaar hame jaan-o jahaan raa
bekhorshid bespaarid ke khosh teegh keshidast

Here 'biaaeid' means "come along" and also means "discover." So the first line can literally mean "come along, come along, the fields of flowers have blossomed" and means "discover, discover, the flower fields that have blossomed" and also means "come along, discover, the flower fields that have blossomed." In the next line 'deldar can mean "lover" "something that pleases heart" "flower field" and "God." In the third line, 'beyekbaar' means "for once" "at once" and "altogether." Next, 'hame jaan' means "every heart and soul" "altogether with heart and soul" "everybody loving one another." In the next line 'bekhorshid' means "bath in God's rays" "bath in beloved's rays" "bath in rays as the sun does" and 'bekhorshid, bespaarid' can mean "devote yourself to the Sun" (Sun here is metaphorical again) and "shine, devote yourself" and other interpretations. So, Rumi intentionally composed these words to create multiple meaning sentences while all rhymes beautifully. These multiple meanings creates layers of poetry.

Shahriari explains that "there are many layers to his poetry... not so much because of his writing, but because of our understanding. As we transcend in our understanding, we grasp more and more of what he conveyed to us."

However, translation of the same lines eliminates these layers of poetry because English language is not much suitable for such poetic expression.

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buddhaloverJan 23, 2007 2:03am
Why don't you transcribe some of his poetry in persian here in this forum. It would be joyful to read someday if I learn Persian.
Maybe there are others who already read Persian who could be touched by the poetry you transcribe.
Half the chalice is better than nothing?

I am contemplating translating it into my language from the english translations. Woe for the drinker of half of half the Chalice.
674039Jul 13, 2007 4:25pm
Turkish translations of Rumi also fascinates the readers. This may be because Rumi has the spirit of our common culture, here I don't mean that it can not be recognized or understood in English or any of Western languages, but for sure, it is much more inside us that Rumi's spirit can be felt.

I believe the real love has the origins of our life style, this is why Kerem and Asli, Leyla and Mecnun(Layla and Majnun) or Ferhad and Sirin remained to be spiritual lovers of all times.

Let me grant you a Turkish translation:

Halifenin Leylâ'yı görmesi

Halife, Leylâ'ya dedi ki:"Sen o musun ki Mecnun, senin aşkından perişan oldu ve kendini kaybetti.
Sen başka güzellerden güzel değilsin. " Leyla, "Sus, çünkü sen Mecnun değilsin" diye cevap verdi.
Uyanık olan daha ziyade uykudadır. Onun uyanıklığı uykusundan beterdir.


The Khalifa said to Laila, "Art thou really she
For whom Majnun lost his head and went distracted?
Thou art not fairer than many other fair ones."
She replied, "Be silent; thou art not Majnun!"
If thou hadst Majnun's eyes,
The two worlds would be within thy view.
Thou art in thy senses, but Majnun is beside himself.
In love to be wide awake is treason.


Translations for half of the Chalice

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